2009-10-22 FOSS4G-IRC log

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[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:36:48] Join ticheler has joined this channel (n=ticheler@169.222.5.108).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:37:32] <ticheler> Opening session; Senator Kate Lundy speaking
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:38:00] Quit e-anima has left this server ("www.artwaves.de").
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:38:12] <ticheler> worked for many years on free data accessible through open standards
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:38:51] <ticheler> reformed ICT procurement established
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:39:11] <ticheler> FOSS is somewhere where we see the best innovations
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:39:58] <ticheler> democratized delivery of spatial information to the broadest audience
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:40:39] <ticheler> thank you for your efforts in this respect
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:41:48] <ticheler> FOSS offers the reference implementations of all relevant standards across the broad ICT
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:43:24] Join nhv has joined this channel (n=chatzill@209-213-65-25.meganet.net).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:43:40] <ticheler> lots of added value created by having the open data access through mashups etc..
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:44:53] <ticheler> government is working on removing levels of complexity that prevent citizens from easy access to relevant data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:45:39] Quit springmeyer has left this server.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:46:21] <ticheler> government has a responsibility to provide means that drive innovation
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:47:06] <ticheler> a lot of economic value is added by opening access to government data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:47:29] <ticheler> privacy is not taken lightly in this respect
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:48:20] <ticheler> culture of openness and sharing instead of locking down access is promoted
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:48:56] <ticheler> spatial data collection should be part of the standard data collection process
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:50:07] Join hrdownunder has joined this channel (n=rubach@169.222.4.71).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:50:36] <ticheler> free data, open standards, open knowledge, open source all contribute to a better, interoperable access to knowledge and data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:51:50] <ticheler> builds up citizens trust towards government and transparency in governance
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:52:12] Quit nhv_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:52:13] <ticheler> government has a great responsibility when it comes to spatial data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:52:35] <seven> NB: govt is the largest procurer of geospatial services
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:53:03] <ticheler> support the rapidly growing industry based on spatial data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:54:10] <ticheler> invitation to visit the gov2.0 website
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:55:01] <ticheler> interoperability demonstration is part of the website
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:56:10] Quit JamesFee has left this server.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:56:31] <ticheler> default policy should be that government data is publicly available except when absolutely not possible
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:56:57] Quit chippy has left this server ("☺").
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:57:00] <ticheler> the bill to enforce such policy change is in preparation
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:58:45] <ticheler> Raul Vera is on stage now
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:59:31] <ticheler> title: Future of Geo FOSS
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [08:59:45] <ticheler> "Who am I to predict that!?"
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:00:28] <ticheler> Raul is a software engineer and working in Sydney on Google maps and other spatial projects
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:12] <ticheler> seven, please help!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:17] <seven> Googles mission is to...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:26] <seven> well, we know that.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:30] <seven> :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:37] <seven> Stats.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:42] <seven> with made up numbers. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:52] <seven> Well, ,its a lightning talk. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:01:56] <ticheler> represent the worlds data also with location
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:02:03] <seven> In the middle of '11 two lines will cross. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:02:12] <seven> More GE on mobile apps than boxes
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:02:29] <seven> A closer look shows that people 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:02:46] <seven> use this geographic informaiton differently to what we did on the dektop. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:03:01] <seven> now (and in '11) people with need to know about places
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:03:07] <seven> Places!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:03:21] <seven> Now the location of where the box sits is not relevant. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:03:29] <seven> On a mobile this is diff
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:03:40] <seven> on a mobile where U r is critical. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:03:53] <seven> an important detail of u on the world. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:01] <seven> it is a property, metadata about yourself
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:16] <seven> using where-you-are is an input
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:18] <seven> this is a 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:20] <seven> ahhhhh
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:24] <seven> paradigm shift!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:34] <seven> Oh, looking into the skies. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:45] <seven> I think khe swith to 2111 now, space travel
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:04:52] <seven> Venus, Uranus
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:02] <seven> Ah, ok, he is hobby astronomer. taht explains it. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:20] * seven welcomes him to orbit around unimatrix zero
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:27] <seven> whatch out, borg have no iFones
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:37] Quit tackat has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:43] <seven> use your fone to help you
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:53] <seven> much more useful than just show the map
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:05:55] <seven> ahhhh
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:06:02] <seven> let's find some coffee. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:06:13] <seven> Now we are right in the middle of Where 2.0 bullshit bingo
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:06:20] <seven> Hehe
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:06:31] <seven> Sry, should have [nolog]ged this.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:06:46] <seven> Location is an absolut dritical input
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:07:05] <seven> On screen some gadges. Sry again, I missed the point. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:07:12] <seven> Oh, cool things that we can do. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:07:29] <seven> Jeoen distracts me. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:07:52] <seven> Ah, we - the FOSS developers - can host our application on our ownn side and distribute it using Android. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:08:05] * seven just types what is being said, she is lost on the point
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:08:14] <seven> it can be a pain - Ah, I know about that. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:08:29] <seven> WebApps ar emor dynamix and flexible than static apps. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:08:34] <seven> Yeah, well...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:08:51] <seven> "that does not sound like much" Exactly
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:01] Join danmo has joined this channel (n=dmorisse@169.222.5.157).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:03] <seven> But you can access truely huge data sets. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:05] <seven> True!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:15] <seven> an demand part: 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:26] <seven> You can use what you want from where you are. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:35] <seven> traffic light (green)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:09:54] <seven> hm. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:10:09] <seven> Ah, you push a button on your app and the trafic light turns green. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:10:10] <seven> Cooool
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:10:21] <seven> As long as it does not break your bill.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:10:32] <seven> Thats what he calls Agile. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:10:47] <seven> Oh, Jeoren points otut: Does not break your "build"
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:10:49] <seven> Hehe.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:11:00] <seven> It can run on almost every web browser
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:11:15] <seven> on screen: 10 by 12 foot chrome logo
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:11:30] <seven> Chrome built to bette rsupport web apps.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:11:41] <seven> Will run on the widest variety of platforms
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:11:47] <seven> Android and.... well
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:11:52] <seven> Cloud computing
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:00] <seven> Cloud on screen
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:17] <seven> It somewhat nebulous where we are going. too many clouds. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:31] <seven> He mentionied that he has two mobile phones
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:40] <seven> and has not moved from one to the other
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:44] <seven> because he haas no time
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:50] Join mloskot has joined this channel (n=mloskot@osgeo/member/mloskot).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:12:56] <seven> But once he did this will haave been the last time
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:13:11] <seven> But once you pushed all your data to (googles) cloud
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:13:28] <seven> you will happily have sold your privacy, soul and money right down the throat of
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:13:33] <seven> well, lets be honest. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:13:39] <seven> They sponsor us, they are OK. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:13:48] <seven> They are just on some kind of steroid
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:13:54] <seven> HTML5
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:04] <seven> that most support right now
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:15] <seven> it will be perfectly ubiquitous and all
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:18] * danmo still feels better with full control on his personal data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:28] <seven> guarantee cnnectivity
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:34] Join jmckenna has joined this channel (n=chatzill@169.222.5.120).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:38] <seven> Cool, how are they oging to make sure that we do not run out of power?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:49] * mloskot thinks of Google as the new born evil in IT world.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:49] <seven> HMTL5 has lots of other good stuff
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:14:58] <seven> hey mloskot
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:11] <seven> dev.w3.org/geo/api
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:15] <seven> that is a cool url 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:21] <seven> http://dev.w3.org/geo/api
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:30] <seven> Hm. No title?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:36] <seven> Geolocation API
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:42] <mloskot> seven: hey
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:44] <ticheler> http://html5.org
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:15:52] <seven> open, non proprietary standards
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:07] <seven> Android on screen again. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:17] <seven> camoufalged as a mobile fone
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:27] <seven> at google we give you some online tools and
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[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:37] <seven> tell you where the future of mobile is going to happen
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:39] <seven> at Google
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:44] <seven> thank you very much
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:16:54] * seven remove her bloodied fingers from the keyboard.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:17:14] <seven> Geoff doing some housekeeping on the schedule
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:17:22] <seven> Thanks Geoff, we love you. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:17:42] <seven> Now lightning talks!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:17:48] Join pramsey has joined this channel (n=pramsey@169.222.4.104).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:17:59] <seven> Anybody pls feel free to jump in to catch these!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:18:28] <seven> Safe Software - Dale Lutz (is that reight?)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:18:44] <seven> Waiting for the scrren to change.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:18:55] <seven> He has been a fan of the FOSS4G movement
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:19:17] <seven> co-founder and president of vice
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:19:24] <seven> Hello to Flavio Hendry
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:19:31] <seven> Mad Max on screen
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:19:38] <seven> PINE 4.44
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:19:45] * seven has tears in her eyes
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:19:59] <seven> That was an email reader that did what you wanted it to do
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:15] <seven> java...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:17] <seven> laughss
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:22] * seven did not see the joke
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:27] <seven> C++
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:29] <nhv> hah seven pnes for pine :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:36] <nhv> pines for pine
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:49] <seven> C++ is what we (Safe) are lookin for
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:54] <seven> hey nhv
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:20:55] <seven> :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:05] <seven> Cro Magnon man on screen
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:10] <seven> with no iFone
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:11] <seven> hehe
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:28] <seven> hip neo geographers (Neo / Matrix on screen)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:33] <seven> Jurrassic geographer
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:37] <seven> penny pincher
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:43] <seven> postgis geoserver amazon
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:21:45] <seven> Ha. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:22:08] <seven> He is going to get into trouble with copyrights of movie shots
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:22:24] <seven> stats: graph goes up and up and up
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:22:32] <seven> along the way in 2000 GML appeared
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:22:39] <seven> supposedly finishing the format war
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:22:43] <seven> but no - it came on
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:22:47] <seven> then came KML
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:02] Join JamesFee has joined this channel (n=JamesFee@12.164.155.105).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:04] <seven> religious debate whether GML and KML and so on
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:15] <seven> he was stalked due to comments he made on KML / GML
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:18] <mloskot> Finally somene mentioned C++ at foss4g, I thought it's not going to happen ;-P
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:28] <seven> cooridnate order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:30] <seven> Yeah!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:34] <seven> apppllaaause
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:42] <seven> latitude, longitude
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:46] Quit JamesFee has left this server (Client Quit).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:54] <seven> WFS hae been hindered by religuousness on order
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:23:56] * mloskot shouts: tell that to SQL Server!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:24:16] <seven> let x be x and y be y andything beyond this comes from evil
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:24:28] <seven> happy cuddly bunny
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:24:36] <seven> picking on Paul's presentation
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:24:44] <seven> Dale is cool! great talk!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:24:51] <seven> chill our
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:24:54] <seven> out
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:05] <seven> blend both prop and foss
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:11] <seven> come off it, that was yesterday. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:13] <seven> Hehe 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:27] <seven> GDAL OGR GEOS
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:31] <seven> long live!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:43] <seven> Safe has supported them even before GDAL had that name
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:56] <mloskot> prehistory!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:57] <mloskot> ;-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:25:59] <seven> qt fdo libLAS
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:04] <mloskot> who says libLAS?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:11] <seven> harmony and peace
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:14] <mloskot> hobu: can you hear that?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:24] <seven> stop arguments
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:29] <seven> Why ?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:30] <seven> its fun
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:37] <mloskot> LAS in Polish means forest, so yes, harmony and peace ;-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:40] <seven> Oh, now we are in a global economic meltdown
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:53] <mloskot> bloody bankers
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:26:56] <seven> Who ever started that Meme is up for immeditate digital crucification
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:03] <seven> its just a fake
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:08] * mloskot anticipates, next subject: US Dollar melt down
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:17] <seven> Another stats going down out the screen
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:26] <seven> Time and Money will be the most important things ruling the world. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:29] <seven> Ugh!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:31] <mloskot> ...last slide, China to be blamed
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:41] <seven> Annoucement: The End of Religion
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:49] <seven> wasn
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:27:54] <mloskot> heh
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:04] <seven> 't that pre last century?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:05] <ticheler> Safe will be the next big OSGeo sponsor?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:13] <seven> Tyler up on stage. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:16] <seven> Tyler Go!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:22] <mloskot> Conclusion: Toyota was right (they are Agile), General Motors was wrong (they use: single-manager leadership)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:29] <seven> Wears a tie
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:33] <mloskot> Tyler for president!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:42] <seven> more stats
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:48] <seven> this is the conf of the stats
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:58] <seven> flashy background for the slides
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:28:59] <seven> :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:06] <mloskot> a tie? what that heck? somebody reminds Tyler the geeks vs suits talk 2 years ago :)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:08] <seven> Does it matter whether he does things? 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:10] <seven> Sure!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:18] <seven> Join up
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:29] <danmo> 42 is the answer... what's the question?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:30] <mloskot> seven: tell something about laptops, what laptops the speakers use?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:33] <seven> pie charts used throughout... oh not. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:34] <mloskot> any eee pc?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:46] <seven> they are routed through some gigantic machinery
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:29:55] <seven> no box to be seen, just monitors
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:06] <mloskot> :(
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:13] <seven> 326 pags in the journal
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:25] <seven> mailing lists
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:34] <seven> around 18k
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:48] <seven> subscribers
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:51] <seven> 137 lists
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:30:51] <mloskot> where are the real hackers? where is crschmidt hacking new fancy services holding his small powerbook with completely broken case and the whole meat visible?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:31:03] <ticheler> no surprise I can't keep up...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:31:06] <seven> they all missed to come to down under
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:31:14] <seven> local chapters
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:31:17] <seven> around 40
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:31:30] <seven> was great to see at the AGM yesterday
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:31:45] <seven> lots of lanugages, cultures, countries
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:04] <seven> Ohloh stats
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:12] <seven> development continues to grow
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:25] <seven> seems like we havee been coding for thousans of man years. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:30] <seven> 10 million lines of code. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:42] <seven> Who on earth is ever going to debug this?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:57] <seven> And when will this code start to develop it's own intelligence and take over
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:32:58] <seven> ?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:33:06] <ticheler> currently 550 committers on OSGeo software
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:33:18] <seven> Economy hit, (again that crazed Meme) so this year we have a few less
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[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:33:28] <seven> Barcelone will go over the top 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:33:52] <seven> Open Source Adoption 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:34:04] <seven> Thanks!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:34:24] <mloskot> Over the top?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:34:32] <seven> more than 1k
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:34:45] <seven> you can write that in scientific notation... :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:34:57] <seven> leader of the panel on climate change
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:35:00] <seven> up on stage
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:35:13] <seven> Andy Pitman
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:35:23] <seven> Universit of South Wales
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:35:23] <mloskot> re scientific, here it is http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1000
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:36:03] * seven leans back and takes a break
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:36:35] <seven> he annouces that he wants to be a lurker - listen more than to talk to us
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:36:57] <seven> to learn what FOSS can do to their 30 year tradition of modelling
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:37:12] <seven> he mentions "bug free"...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:37:23] <mloskot> ...introduce more bugs
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:37:25] <seven> The Earth's climate is changing. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:37:30] <mloskot> ;-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:37:40] <seven> Finally it seems like it is not a discussion any more. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:37:55] <seven> We messed the world up and now?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:38:00] <seven> We go fly to down under. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:38:03] <seven> Huh. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:38:06] <mloskot> The Earth climate is a self-modifying code performing multi processing tasks, quite hard to debug
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:38:33] <seven> Debug earth's climate is easy: Remove humanity
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:38:44] <seven> says a dedicated Borg...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:38:53] <mloskot> we need to hurry to release new versions of our software ASAP, before the Earth go down
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:21] <mloskot> seven: right, that sounds like a reasonable patch
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:43] <nhv> In the September 1958 issue of Harper's Betty Friedan, pre-“Feminine Mystique,” was busy working as a journalist. wrote about “The Coming Ice Age,” (registration required) a gem in the annals of environmental historiography. “Although scientists do not agree on its significance, they have observed an increasingly rapid warming and rising of the ocean in recent years,” Friedan...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:43] <seven> Two planets meet, ,says one: "Hey you look horriible, what do you have?"
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:44] <nhv> ...wrote — way...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:46] <seven> Humantiy
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:46] <nhv> ...before Al Gore came along. “Warm water flowing north has driven the codfish off Cape Cod to Newfoundland; annual temperature has risen ten degrees in Iceland and Greenland; down here winters are warmer; the Hudson River no longer freezes over as it used to.” Friedan’s article focused on the scientists Maurice Ewing and William Donn, who predicted that “the next Ice Age will be...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:47] <nhv> ...preceded by...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:49] <nhv> ...such a warming of climate.”
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:39:57] <nhv> sorry couldn't resist :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:40:08] <seven> nhv: You are welcome. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:40:40] <seven> We are successfull emmitting 9qkm each year.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:40:50] <seven> That looks like aa big pile. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:40:59] <mloskot> nhv: hi
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:40:59] <seven> How do we know? 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:41:14] <seven> We've been busily collecting data. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:41:29] <seven> Nobody will ever be able to say :We didn't know. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:41:47] * nhv admits that he initially got started building ossimPlanet to get global tool for seeing things climate change
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:42:01] <nhv> 'like' climate change
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:42:10] <seven> Oceans acidify
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:42:50] <seven> Basic theory: Its just a physics problem. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:43:21] <seven> We basically have not changed the models in 50 years. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:43:32] <seven> Which does not render them any bad
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:43:48] <seven> Means we know much longer than just a few years.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:43:53] <seven> We just did not listen. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:44:00] Quit jmckenna has left this server ("cya!").
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:44:14] <seven> The climate model is too complex.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:44:19] <seven> It cannot be computed. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:44:49] <seven> very, very complex models of software
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:45:13] <acuster> the climate model or the climate itself?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:45:16] <nhv> http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/apitman-profile speakers professional page
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:45:45] <darkblue_B> google Dr Inez Fung
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:46:06] <darkblue_B> I presented Winkey's KML to her 6 weeks ago
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:46:34] <seven> 300 by 300 km grids for computing
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:46:55] <seven> some rich (funded) Japanese researches can do with 100 by 100 km grids
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:47:04] <seven> Exaflop computer systems
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:47:33] <seven> 2*10^18 runs per cylce
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:47:35] <darkblue_B> we have that here at Berkeley, and they have it at San Diego Supercomputer Center
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:47:46] <darkblue_B> .. though I dont know about that particular system you are talking about
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:47:48] <seven> six months on a comupter system to calculate 200 years prediction
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:47:58] Join jmckenna has joined this channel (n=chatzill@169.222.5.120).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:06] <darkblue_B> the BOINC system ran several hundred simulations
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:18] <darkblue_B> while the supercomputer people got off less than 3 dozen
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:24] <darkblue_B> .. of a particular Cambridge model
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:24] <seven> if you have a linux boy not doing anything you can join forces
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:27] <acuster> darkblue_B, you at Cal?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:44] <darkblue_B> Brower Center, Berkeley.. no official position
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:48:51] <seven> climate models work
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:49:06] <acuster> what's brower?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:49:22] <darkblue_B> http://www.browercenter.org
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:49:29] <jmckenna> danmo: can you tell msmith to get on IRC?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:49:52] <seven> climate models are written in Fortran
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:49:58] <seven> because that is what best works
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:07] <seven> run on teraflop boxes
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:09] <acuster> wow, very new looking
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:12] <acuster> nice
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:23] Join msmith has joined this channel (n=u4rt9mds@169.222.4.141).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:29] * mloskot is wondering how much 6 months of work of super computer influences climate change itself
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:43] <mloskot> ...of course, model should take it into account :)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:45] <darkblue_B> the flea should know where the dog is headed
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:49] <acuster> me wonders how anyone would know that that is what 'works best'
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:50:59] <seven> crschmidt: He requests us to write our web appes with FORTRAN because that will be the best we can do. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:51:14] <seven> Don't grown. Thats just what it is. :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:51:24] <seven> "groan" that was
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:51:56] <seven> Generate 5Tb per run
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:52:08] <seven> Data sets now > 1 Pbyte
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:52:41] <seven> Virtually all climate models are not available as Open Source!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:53:14] <seven> GISS and CCSM, both USA, are the only ones available as FOSS
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:53:17] <acuster> Does not sound like an oceans guy, or he would talk about the feedback of sensors into the models right about now.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:53:38] <seven> ECHO-G from Germany can be used with some restrictions
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:03] <seven> One reason might be that nobody ever asked to have the climate models.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:14] <acuster> http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/modeling/
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:18] <nhv> atmosphere models have plenty of feedback from models also many more sensors then from the oceans
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:22] <seven> And it needs lots of funds to keep the software running
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:34] <acuster> http://www.ccsm.ucar.edu/
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:48] <nhv> from sensors long history of atmos sensors
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:50] <acuster> cool
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:54:57] <seven> We (that is the scientists) lack funding to support 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:55:07] <seven> No code repositories?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:55:17] <seven> Huh? You really mena that?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:55:22] <mloskot> Before we finish the whole process of instrumenting the Earth with our fancy sensors and networks, it'll be quite late anyways
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:55:38] <seven> millions of line of code. You keep them on a floppy?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:00] <seven> They get battled by the sceptics
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:05] <seven> strategic issues, etc. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:27] <seven> Very low resourcing and no culture...
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:35] <nhv> climate models need many years of sensor data
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:35] <seven> :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:36] <seven> ...of Open Source
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:41] <mloskot> seven: tell them about github or bitbucket
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:46] <mloskot> sourceforge.net is good oto
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:56:53] <acuster> cvs, make them suffer
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:04] * seven unfortunatelly can't edit the slides on screen.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:10] <mloskot> crap
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:22] <seven> acuster: Better then nothing. They have NOTHING now. Can you imagine?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:22] <acuster> now that would be community commentary
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:31] <acuster> yes, I can imagine
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:39] <seven> So, why Open OSurce. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:42] <acuster> perhaps they have some inline documentation but probably not
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:45] <mloskot> perhaps somebody could turn desktop sharing on on the presentation computer
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:56] <seven> Because open source is more reliable! Ha!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:57:58] <acuster> lots of scientists do not even use whitespace and carriage returns much
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:58:16] <seven> 1 million lines of code 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:58:18] <mloskot> seven: what they understand as reliability
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:58:21] <acuster> becauseIknowwhatmycodedoestodayandIwillneverlookatthisagainanyways
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:58:27] <nhv> http://www2-pcmdi.llnl.gov/cdat/ another foss climate modelling tool
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:58:28] <seven> contain 1000 to 30000 bugs
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:59:11] * seven points out that the bug comment is related to the million lines of code, not nhv's link
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:59:25] * nhv has borrowed much from cdat on occasion note it is Python :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:59:38] <acuster> it is in python or python is the glue?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:59:42] <seven> climate modellers need thesupport of real software engineers. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [09:59:45] <nhv> the glue
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:00] <seven> That will clobber them with a baseball bat if they (the scientists) touch the code. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:04] <seven> That's a statement
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:06] <seven> :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:08] <acuster> they have no money, they aren't going to waste it on programmers.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:38] <seven> This is a great challenge.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:49] <nhv> many climate researchers are programmers almost by definition
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:55] * seven wonders whether she should dedicate a year to help them get going.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:00:59] Join cgs_bob has joined this channel (n=bobm@112.sub-70-212-193.myvzw.com).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:01:12] <mloskot> programmer not necessary is a software engineer, he can be a code monkey
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:01:12] <seven> or rather dedicate a day to eradicate humanity right away. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:01:21] <seven> That would be a lot more effective. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:01:40] <mloskot> seven: is pizza and beer free?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:01:58] * acuster is rooting for the insects.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:05] <ticheler> you can run the biggest super computers while you can't get funding for proper software development indicates that the last one does not have your interest..
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:05] <seven> I guess that should be a viable investment. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:07] <acuster> that would be a great FOSS code sprint
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:10] * mloskot 's got slapped in head
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:16] <acuster> except that none of us know FORTRAN
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:21] <seven> Hehehe
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:29] <acuster> or very, very few of us
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:36] <seven> Pitman: What I want.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:39] <mloskot> warm-up is necessary before every sprint, so.. ;-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:42] <ticheler> lack of funding is a bad argument at that stage
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:45] <seven> I will ask him to give us that slide. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:02:48] <mloskot> fortran warm-up sounds great
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:03:24] * seven is runing out of power. This silly auditorium has no wall plugs. Why don't they ever givve us power in these places?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:03:37] <acuster> gluing everything together with python sounds more likely
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:03:41] <seven> Latest sexiest language
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:03:56] <seven> NO: We need FORTRAN. Got that!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:04:14] <nhv> :-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:04:23] <seven> Dialog with the modellers is required. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:04:43] <mloskot> seven: you don't want to participate in the climage change, do you?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:04:48] <mloskot> so, don't look for a plug
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:04:56] <seven> Got me. 
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:05:06] * seven unplugs. See you later.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:05:09] <ticheler> mloskot: we all participate in climate change, if you want it or not! ;-)
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:05:10] <acuster> or steal your neighbour's computer
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [10:05:16] <acuster> ciao, thanks seven
*** Logfile started
*** on Thu Oct 22 12:32:43 2009
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:32:43] Join You have joined the channel #osgeo (n=seven@169.222.5.128).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:32:43] Topic The channel topic is "Open Source Geospatial Foundation - OSGeo | http://www.osgeo.org | Logs at: http://logs.qgis.org/osgeo | All are welcome to ask any questions! | Development : #osgeo-commits | http://planet.osgeo.org/ | Paste snippets via http://osgeo.pastebin.com/".
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:32:43] Topic The topic was set by aghisla on 08/13/2009 02:19:01 AM.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:32:49] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:32:49] Created This channel was created on 11/26/2006 05:42:57 PM.
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:34:38] <seven> Hey sigq - no logging today?
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:35:01] <seven> @seen FrankW
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:35:02] <sigq> seven: FrankW was last seen in #osgeo 1 day, 2 hours, 4 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: * FrankW is rather curious second hand!
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:36:08] Join juliensam has joined this channel (n=jlacroix@169.222.5.182).
[Thu Oct 22 2009] [12:36:10] <seven> Hum. Seem to be up now. So this morning's lightning talks and presentation logs are not logged. Pity.